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Comments
word.
Although I wouldn't mind if more potential comics-readers out there were being reached. It's becoming progressively more "cool", though, and I hope the kids growing up on DBZ (ugh) and Shonen Jump etc grow up with a taste for comics in general.
I don't need earning a living in comics to be any easier than earning a living by writing novels, but parity would be awesome.
That said, I too am optimistic. Go us, we rule.
Posted by Dylan at November 29, 2003 07:14 PM
64.252.250.173
What about the horde of japanese artist that don't see a dime from any of these sales, and the american made manga-ripoffs that are poorly drawn that sell like crazy?
JTHM is over, Gloomcookie is over, and many of the other decent gothic-esk comics that I was reading that was good stuff from the states. I'm not looking to see anything as good as Sandman from Niel, though I hear the pressure is still on him to produce to all his aging fams and all his whining new ones. I haven;t seen anything else that has caught my eye.
I'm a big fan of manga. I have a large collection of manga and anime. But when I think about it... it kind of depresses me. American stuff really is going down the shit hole... and I don;t blame the massive influx of japanese comics. I blame the laziness of stupid americans. Stupid fat greasy sport-ute pushing businessmen. And Fox news. I'll always blame them for everything.
My 2 cents and a half.
Posted by Psychomelody at December 1, 2003 08:22 AM
141.158.29.47
Excuse me Melody?
"horde of japanese artist that don't see a dime from any of these sales"
Believe it or not, most Japanese artists do see some royalties from all this, and a cut of licensing, since they own their work in part, or in entireity.
Tomoko Taniguchi's stuff for example, is licensed through her, not her japanese publisher, and she actually did several issues of Princess Prince JUST for the american market, paid for by CPM.
Japanese artists are making some money off of this, and how much depends on their contracts with their Japanese publishers [if they weren't getting royalties off reprints, their original publishing contract might have somethign to do with it]. But CLAMP, Rumiko Takahashi, and Naoko Takeuchi do indeed receive royalties from their work, and the various products associated with it, worldwide.
This might be slightly different with stuff like say, the Gundam Wing or Digimon manga where they are not the original creator. But that's similar to the US's comic world.
Neil's doing well writing novels, and the occasional comics, which he does because he wants to like any author should. The pleased fans are a happy sideaffect :)
As for american made Manga ripoffs selling like crazy, well the art I've seen on TokyoPop's new manga line is stellar, adn I want ShutterBox! Oni Press's titles have art inspired by all sorts of comics, and most high profile american artists influenced by manga have their OWN unique style.
It's not like Lea Hernandez is copying Love Hina, that Jill Thompson is copying Berzerk, Chynna Clugston Major is copying Video Girl Ai, or that Jeff Smith is copying YuGiOh [which are all hilariously innaccurate analogies anyways]. Their work is just as valid as any japanese creator's is.
It's all comics Mel. If you can't find any good comics from countries other then Japan, I'll be more then pleased to direct you to some.
Posted by Andre' at December 1, 2003 10:15 PM
138.73.70.162
All in all I may have been confusing manga with anime in that part from bits of constant rants of one of my Japanese friends. (Which I might add is in no was a good source for such a thing.)
I'm also going on what I listen and talk to about here in the Philadelphia comic market. Again, in no way a reliable source. But you are correct in the fact that some Japanese artists do recive good profit from american sales.
Though I'll have to dissagree with you on the "American Manga" angle. I really don't know what kind of manga you read. I'm mainly compairing them to all comics, but mostly manga I've read in the past. I've looked at the Tokyopop issue you speak of, and it made me sick. (Not to mention the fact that Bridget Wilde was in there....yuck) Maybe it's because I see manga as part of thier "culture" and not as a "style". And all it does is promote more of these little kids doing more anime ripoffs. I could go on and on about this, if you would like further discussion please e-mail me.
And I never said anything about not finding any other good comics outside of Japan. More that the amount of spill that is produced here in the states. I'm working my way into the film/animation industry with the same frustration on everything created here. My hope is to create something new. Recycling waste is starting to get boring.
Posted by Psychomelody at December 1, 2003 11:04 PM
141.158.29.47
Actually, that's Tavisha's personal style. And she's not a little kids. She's quite the adult, and has been working on comics for 10+ years, including a stint on Nickelodeon's Invader Zim as a background artists [with her husband, who collaborates with her on ShutterBox, who was a designer on the show, as well as a voice actor].
http://www.tavicat.com/faq.html
Read her FAQ for reasons why she's a comic artist, and why fans who says she shouldn't draw manga piss her off. I've read some of their previous work, and it's good stuff.
Manga is NOT strictly a part of their culture. Why? Because Manga is just COMICS. You can look at stuff published in Japan as part of the culture, but in the case of stuff like Blue Monday, it's set in america, as american/irish characters, has a british mod obsession, and is really something all it's own outside of it's manga influences.
Also, BTW, most people working in the comics industry aren't "kids". You have to be 18 to get a contract. Legal age and all. Not to mention that prodigies are rare.
What disturbed me most about your arguement is what if these little kids watching anime and reading manga want to make their OWN? What if you want to make your own comics with manga influences?
Is it automatically trash because they're not Japanese?
I hope you do create someting new if/when you do, but that you remember your aspirations when critiquing others, and just don't brush aside artists who work in a manga style, as there's often a lot more going on with it then just big eyes,and tring to cash in on YuGiOh.
Posted by Andre' at December 2, 2003 12:18 AM
138.73.70.162
I think you both have good arguments and good points. "Yankee Manga" (which I think Spike coined one time) illicits mixed emotions from me, and I won't get into it right now. My only real concern with the manga-movement and the wild successfulness of things like Shonen Jump is it's effect on the kids reading comics and watching cartoons - I get worried that they will only gravitate towards things done in that style. It could be a phase that they'll grow out of (exclusively anime), but it's too early to tell.
I cite this because I work with kids, K - 8 who, naturally, are voracious about their anime and manga consumption. However, there is a definite distatse among them when it comes to non-manga stuff. It's odd when they think that YuGiOh and Bey Blades are really cool (including the older kids), but won't touch things non-manga with a forty foot pole. I don't know if this aesthetic is based on an attraction to the style (anime = cool), or if they've seen the American stuff and really DO think it's crap (which, come on, most of it is).
So, to sum up. I just get worried that the kids and future readers are into Anime BECAUSE it's anime, not because the story or characters are particularly interesting; ipso facto, they won't touch American or European stuff because the style is non-anime, but may have an interesting story. And I do have to say that with the advent of American-Anime shows on Cartoon network (Totally Spies, Teen Titans) and in mainstream comics (Marvel's Manga somethingorother), I think alot of people are worried about this very idea...
Posted by Zack at December 2, 2003 09:46 AM
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Sorry for crowding up your site with my rants Spike! Late night studying doesn't mix well with Manga conversations :)
Posted by andre' at December 2, 2003 11:04 AM
138.73.70.162
No need to apologize, Andre. this is fascinating stuff, you're all making pretty interesting points. I'd probably be participationg a lot more, but I'm pretty sick right now, and not really in any condition to think of my feet.
Makes me wonder if I oughta get a forum going.
Posted by spike at December 2, 2003 03:23 PM
68.20.212.217
Mabye just link it all a Lucas+Odessa forum? I hope you get better. I've been addled with a cold for awhile now, and being sick sucks.
Posted by Andre' at December 2, 2003 07:06 PM
138.73.70.162
umm... just randomly surfing the net and I thought I'd add my two cents worth, so sorry if this is a private board or something... Umm.. regarding the arguement on kids liking anime and manga just because of the style, I'd have to say that, as a young teenager myself, a lot of my friends think that way. It's really too bad, because there are a lot of good American series- only most ofthose titles are mature. I think the increasing market for anime/manga is steeming from an unfilled gap in the American market. After all, once you've outgrown "Archie" and the Sunday funnies, there aren't many comics kids can find. But manga has so many titles and genres, it's attracting kids and teenagers. Now if only they would import the comics marketed to middle-aged and senior readers, then everyone would have a comic! Too many kids keep saying their parents don't like manga.
Posted by napthia9 at January 31, 2004 08:00 PM
209.86.115.239
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