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Comments
Aw, don't sell the Amerindians short. There's evidence that the Indians from whom Peter Minuit bought Manhattan were actually from what's now the Canarsie area of Brooklyn, were just passing through Manhattan, and had no claim to the land they sold.
In other words, both parties to the transaction were ripping each other off. An entirely appropriate origin story for New York City.
Posted by Avram at June 1, 2008 09:49 PM
24.45.3.171
There was supposed to be a link in there:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_156.html
Posted by Avram at June 1, 2008 09:50 PM
24.45.3.171
I LOVE Zora!
The way shes grabbing Gene all "No more Mason Jars for daddy you meanies!" is just irrevocably cute.
I dont know what shes going to do with her life, but god dammit shes gonna rock you and your mother on the way there!
Posted by Chris at June 1, 2008 10:28 PM
151.204.244.119
Native Americans on the East Coast thought they were only selling land usage rights, not the land itself. For the right to hunt and fish enough to feed a fort full of white people, a few exotic beads is a fair deal. The real treachery came when those white people started sneaking all their relatives in too.
I think the Brazilian gov't should send an ambassador to this tribe- just one guy- to spend a year there warning them of the sorts of modern things they may run into in the rainforest, then leave them with a single two-way radio to keep in touch. You have to consider the dangers of regular people going in and messing with the tribe without the sanction or oversight of society at large. There need to be some assurances against that.
Posted by jdalton at June 1, 2008 10:28 PM
205.250.69.132
i must admit, im not 100% sure of the specific story that you are talking about but the basic gist struck something and i felt the need to reply with a large YES! i mean im also not one into glorifying such societies but if history has taught us anything, messing with the natural cultural evolutionary process will only mess things up. Hell most 3rd world countries today are exactly that. Places where rich white europeans landed, and decided to "make better" thusly messing up a culture that had yet to reach their potential. Most of these countries have turned into starving hubs riddled with corruption, child prostitution, poverty and a number of other problems because someone decided to force their "advanced" culture on them. .If they were left alone they probable would have turned out much different. Many ways of life centered around old ways are riddle with cultural relationship that when shattered cannot be replaced. they got to evolve on their own terms. I like this analogy, you put a 5 year old in a stick shift truck, turn to him and tell him to drive to the store. 99% if the time he will probable crash. wait till he's ready to drive that car (has the motor skill and developed frontal lobe) and his chance to crash goes down significantly. just wait till he's ready and you will probable get better results. idk, i just think people are to self ritgeous to help others. They can only think about their owns ways and how much better they are instead of listening to other people and applying those different beliefs to problem solving. Sorry for long post, your agrument just stuck me and i felt the need to respond, positively but respond lol.
Posted by Rot at June 1, 2008 10:29 PM
71.56.224.140
Wow. That is so fucking depressing I want to cry. That picture of them aiming their bows and arrows at the helicopter. Oh shit.
If I believed in a god I would pray for them.
Posted by x at June 1, 2008 11:35 PM
76.115.33.0
"Look at our airplanes. Have some herpes. Three beads a square mile, and not one necklace more. Look into the camera, please. Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? Say yes. Just say yes. And put some pants on. This is a family jungle.
...
I DIDN'T HEAR A THANK YOU."
Hello, I love you. *weeps*
Posted by Kate at June 2, 2008 12:31 AM
74.47.134.250
I hate it when people meddle in third world countries who don't need the help. I can understand how in some African countries they need medical help because every other person has HIV/AIDS.
But seriously, I had to go to this assembly in school about Rwanda. It's horrible what's going on. Yes. But is it our place to run over there and be like: "OMFG WE NEED TO HELP!!" that's their problem, why are we meddling in it? Those people caused the problem themselves, let them deal with it. You know?
People are so silly.
Posted by chibbi at June 2, 2008 12:47 AM
76.99.128.173
Mmm, I love the smell of ethnocentrism in the mornin'.
Posted by CitrusFreak12 at June 2, 2008 01:07 AM
70.188.140.92
Talking about Africa "causing the problem themselves" is usually sort of disingenuous. Rwanda, for example, was under Belgian rule until less than fifty years ago, and its borders are completely arbitrary, forced upon it by European colonials.
We may not be able to fix these problems through further intervention, but claiming that problems in these African nations are solely due to the actions of Africans ignores literally centuries of previous interference which ended less than a human lifetime ago. The same can be said for many Middle Eastern and Southeast Asian nations; the effects of centuries of occupation will continue to be felt for centuries to come, *especially* the borders that were drawn by occupying nations and not by the native populations.
Posted by Wagner at June 2, 2008 01:29 AM
63.246.162.18
As soon as we establish contact with this remote tribe, they are going to start dying of diseases they have no antibodies for. Like, say, the common cold.
And flying by in the helicopter was just cruel.
Posted by Alissa at June 2, 2008 06:37 AM
96.32.145.91
Stone-age societies DO suck, but the reason they suck is because we are NOT a stone-age society.
By the same token, those living in a stone-age society...it would be outright cruel to take them from that. The children would eventually adapt, but the adults...well, they'd probably flounder looking for their place in life, and eventually just DIE.
Why people can't be left to rest in peace, I'll never know. Maybe they don't WANT to ride in an airplane and experience herpes.
Posted by Micchi at June 2, 2008 07:05 AM
67.189.9.119
That's the best description of Amerindian contact I've ever heard.
Posted by Nina at June 2, 2008 11:02 AM
128.211.252.93
I like jdalton's idea of one ambassador, but ultimately, some beer-drinking redneck is going to go down there, try to mess with them, and get his nuts shot off. From there it is just a handbasket ride to full-scale government intervention. Sooner or later, this tribe will have to join the modern world, unless we build a massive dome over them a la Truman Show. There just aren't any walls high enough to stop the assholes of the world.
Posted by sushi jones at June 2, 2008 12:43 PM
64.230.9.219
Hm. Lots of disinformation floating around.
a) The helicopter fly by was to provide evidence to the world that the people were there, and endangered.
b) So the Brazilian government could do - as they have done with other Stone Age tribes in the same area: Cordon off a sizable section of land to be protected and preserved against outside influence and logging to prevent the deaths of said tribes by outside contact.
c) And so the world as a whole would be aware of the situation should companies or individuals push the issue.
In essence Brazil *wants* to know where they are - so they can leave them alone without accidentally crossing paths and endangering or destroying them.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iRk0QGW-Tz0q6PP7y36N3CwOgH_wD9105MUG0
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24895872/
Posted by Anon at June 2, 2008 01:44 PM
98.26.52.145
I know officially love the living daylights out of Zora. And she'd better stay put, 'cause Daddy needs her, too.
And seriously? Ya, people. leave 'em alone. It'll do a lot more damage to force the 21st century down their throats. (Ever read the issue of Transmetropolitan when he visits the reservations?)
Posted by millie at June 2, 2008 02:46 PM
72.79.11.244
A Brave New World by Huxley comes to mind. The isolated tribes living the gatherer hunter lifestyle. yeah sure... they don't get the luxuries of the internet or cars... but they also don't suffer from those things either.
Posted by thetendancy at June 2, 2008 05:17 PM
207.5.236.183
Poor Zora. :/
And poor Gene.
And pooor amerindians. It pisses me off when people try to interfere with other people's lives.
Posted by MissusHow at June 2, 2008 05:53 PM
66.67.173.77
Re: Rwanda. Ask the people there and they will blame the entire world for NOT doing anything when people were being massacred. If my neighbours were trying to massacre me, I'd sure want help from wherever I could get it. The African Union could send troops in to Canada to help me and I'd be thrilled to see them.
As long as they don't decide to stay and turn my country into a colony, redraw the borders at will, tell me I'm an evolutionary throwback, and decide I can't be trusted to participate in my own government.
Posted by jdalton at June 2, 2008 06:44 PM
205.250.69.132
Is it just me or is Gene looking rather pleased with himself for giving his family a reason they'd accept to leave Templar?
Or is it just that his daughter is hugging him...
Posted by Anon, A Mouse at June 2, 2008 08:21 PM
67.163.54.126
Anon, I had that exact same thought.
Posted by Tyler at June 2, 2008 09:57 PM
96.245.0.104
Well said, Citrusfreak12.
Posted by Amarikah at June 2, 2008 10:13 PM
76.8.204.7
Wow, the Star Trek nerds got one right. The Prime Directive completely applies here.
You do not uplift cultures. You do not get them hooked on cigarettes to get them to enumerate the taboo names of their dead for your little ethnographic study. That is wrong.
That said, I think the orange dude is wearing Adidas.
Posted by jeremiah at June 3, 2008 09:50 AM
129.21.180.134
I think, if you've managed to make it this far as an "uncivilized" society, you win. Modern man has no right to go poking the ant hill. Maybe if no one had thought to poke our ant hill (though doubtlessly we poked it ourselves, and there were a hell of a lot of ant hills to poke back then), we would have turned out a little more in touch with our surroundings and a little less angry, jealous, and in need of THINGS. I'm with you're second reaction - leave them entirely the fuck alone. They don't deserve to be inflicted with our fucked-uppedness, just because we have more technically advanced technology. If the leave works, who the hell needs glass anyway? At least you can walk on leaves if you drop them.
Posted by Larissa at June 3, 2008 07:08 PM
72.140.16.136
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